Comments on: What about the church planting failures? http://www.movements.net/2006/12/12/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html The companion website to the new book by Steve Addison Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:09:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9 hourly 1 By: How many church plants survive? » Steve Addison’s blog » World Changers http://www.movements.net/2006/12/12/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html/comment-page-1#comment-52152 How many church plants survive? » Steve Addison’s blog » World Changers Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:54:20 +0000 http://www.steveaddison.net/2006/12/14/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html#comment-52152 [...] See: What about the church planting failures? [...] [...] See: What about the church planting failures? [...]

]]> By: ‘Parent’ Churches are Healthier! http://www.movements.net/2006/12/12/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html/comment-page-1#comment-25592 ‘Parent’ Churches are Healthier! Sun, 11 Feb 2007 20:32:36 +0000 http://www.steveaddison.net/2006/12/14/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html#comment-25592 [...] are some facts! Church plants do fail (check out Why church plants fail? and share your comments) - but [...] [...] are some facts! Church plants do fail (check out Why church plants fail? and share your comments) – but [...]

]]> By: Keith in Nevada http://www.movements.net/2006/12/12/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html/comment-page-1#comment-11443 Keith in Nevada Mon, 18 Dec 2006 04:06:42 +0000 http://www.steveaddison.net/2006/12/14/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html#comment-11443 I was being a bit tongue in cheek when saying perhaps megachurches are failures. I don't really think that is the case, however, the points made in The Tipping Point about dynamics up to the 150 mark are suggestive to say the least, and I have not seen engagement with that concept, although admittedly I don't move much in circles where I would see it. Good point that Church health is not one-dimensional. That will need some digesting. I'll have to find the NCD paradigm and give it some thought. For now, my leading from the Lord for prayer is clear. Perhaps He will clarify it through further study. Thanks for your comments. K in NV I was being a bit tongue in cheek when saying perhaps megachurches are failures. I don’t really think that is the case, however, the points made in The Tipping Point about dynamics up to the 150 mark are suggestive to say the least, and I have not seen engagement with that concept, although admittedly I don’t move much in circles where I would see it.

Good point that Church health is not one-dimensional. That will need some digesting. I’ll have to find the NCD paradigm and give it some thought. For now, my leading from the Lord for prayer is clear. Perhaps He will clarify it through further study. Thanks for your comments.

K in NV

]]> By: Steve http://www.movements.net/2006/12/12/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html/comment-page-1#comment-11440 Steve Mon, 18 Dec 2006 03:55:41 +0000 http://www.steveaddison.net/2006/12/14/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html#comment-11440 Keith, re the link between lack of prayer and church planting failure: We had to close our second church plant despite an even stronger commitment from the start to prayer and fasting and God's refining work in our lives. It's a long story but I don't think prayer alone can guarantee a viable church plant. I think the NCD paradigm of eight interrelated health indicators reminds us that God wants loving relationships in the church as much as he wants passionate spirituality. He wants empowering leadership as much as he wants a people mobilized according to their spiritual gifts. Prayer is key but health is not one dimensional. Keith, re the link between lack of prayer and church planting failure: We had to close our second church plant despite an even stronger commitment from the start to prayer and fasting and God’s refining work in our lives. It’s a long story but I don’t think prayer alone can guarantee a viable church plant.

I think the NCD paradigm of eight interrelated health indicators reminds us that God wants loving relationships in the church as much as he wants passionate spirituality. He wants empowering leadership as much as he wants a people mobilized according to their spiritual gifts. Prayer is key but health is not one dimensional.

]]> By: Steve http://www.movements.net/2006/12/12/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html/comment-page-1#comment-11439 Steve Mon, 18 Dec 2006 03:50:06 +0000 http://www.steveaddison.net/2006/12/14/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html#comment-11439 Keith, re church size and "failure": NCD findings reveal that larger churches have their challenges in both reaching new people and mobilizing existing members for ministry. But I'm reluctant to say a church has failed just on the basis of size. Large or small. I like Tim Keller's approach: A. Every church has a “size culture,” which must be accepted. B. Every church has aspects of its natural size culture, which must be resisted. C. There is no “best size” for a church. http://www.redeemer2.com/themovement/issues/2006/fall/church_size_dynamics.html Keith, re church size and “failure”: NCD findings reveal that larger churches have their challenges in both reaching new people and mobilizing existing members for ministry. But I’m reluctant to say a church has failed just on the basis of size. Large or small.

I like Tim Keller’s approach:

A. Every church has a “size culture,” which must be accepted.
B. Every church has aspects of its natural size culture, which must be resisted.
C. There is no “best size” for a church.

http://www.redeemer2.com/themovement/issues/2006/fall/church_size_dynamics.html

]]> By: Keith in Nevada http://www.movements.net/2006/12/12/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html/comment-page-1#comment-11438 Keith in Nevada Mon, 18 Dec 2006 03:36:53 +0000 http://www.steveaddison.net/2006/12/14/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html#comment-11438 I am a spectator to Church planting even though I have a degree in missions. I work as a professional in the mining industry. However, the further I go along in my walk with Christ the more I see prayer as central to God's work and my own life. I would be interested in anyone's descriptions of the prayer life of the church plants that failed. The church I attend is not especially spirit led in the sense of people calling upon the Lord and waiting upon Him for his direction. Elder meetings are more like business meetings and mission committee meetings do not emphasize prayer so much as allocation of funds and the latest current events. Etc. for other activities of the church. As I have interceded for my church the Lord has continually brought me back to the truth that my Church lacks power not because the elders are failing to do this or that; not because the congregants ought to be doing this or that, and are not; not because we lack this or that program; but because corporately we are not calling upon God. In short I see the Holy Spirit leading me to pray relentlessly for His power to be at work among us, leading to brokeness, repentance, and His will being done among us as we call upon Him. I do not exclude myself from culpability in the failure of His power to be at work among us, so it has been a humbling road to say the least. So my question to anyone that wants to answer is this: When church plants fail, what was the prayer life of those churches like? I am a spectator to Church planting even though I have a degree in missions. I work as a professional in the mining industry. However, the further I go along in my walk with Christ the more I see prayer as central to God’s work and my own life. I would be interested in anyone’s descriptions of the prayer life of the church plants that failed.

The church I attend is not especially spirit led in the sense of people calling upon the Lord and waiting upon Him for his direction. Elder meetings are more like business meetings and mission committee meetings do not emphasize prayer so much as allocation of funds and the latest current events. Etc. for other activities of the church.

As I have interceded for my church the Lord has continually brought me back to the truth that my Church lacks power not because the elders are failing to do this or that; not because the congregants ought to be doing this or that, and are not; not because we lack this or that program; but because corporately we are not calling upon God. In short I see the Holy Spirit leading me to pray relentlessly for His power to be at work among us, leading to brokeness, repentance, and His will being done among us as we call upon Him. I do not exclude myself from culpability in the failure of His power to be at work among us, so it has been a humbling road to say the least.

So my question to anyone that wants to answer is this: When church plants fail, what was the prayer life of those churches like?

]]> By: Keith in Nevada http://www.movements.net/2006/12/12/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html/comment-page-1#comment-11421 Keith in Nevada Sun, 17 Dec 2006 15:59:42 +0000 http://www.steveaddison.net/2006/12/14/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html#comment-11421 Maybe a megachurch is a failure. Based on a very interesting section in the book "The Tipping Point" we might think of limiting churches to about 150 people, above which community begins to fail and they become merely organizations. A worthwhile book to read with what I think is a very important insight into social structures. Maybe a megachurch is a failure. Based on a very interesting section in the book “The Tipping Point” we might think of limiting churches to about 150 people, above which community begins to fail and they become merely organizations. A worthwhile book to read with what I think is a very important insight into social structures.

]]> By: GuyMuse http://www.movements.net/2006/12/12/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html/comment-page-1#comment-10320 GuyMuse Tue, 12 Dec 2006 15:29:52 +0000 http://www.steveaddison.net/2006/12/14/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html#comment-10320 I have posted our own reasons for high church planting failure <a href="http://guymuse.blogspot.com/2006/09/why-do-so-many-of-our-church-plants.html" rel="nofollow"> here</a>. It is indeed frustrating to see so much of our effort end in apparent failure, but then again, HE is Lord of the Harvest, not us. We have to believe that the Lord has all these matters under His watchful eye. I just wish we were wiser and could understand some of the reasons for church plants not working out. I have posted our own reasons for high church planting failure here. It is indeed frustrating to see so much of our effort end in apparent failure, but then again, HE is Lord of the Harvest, not us. We have to believe that the Lord has all these matters under His watchful eye. I just wish we were wiser and could understand some of the reasons for church plants not working out.

]]> By: Steve http://www.movements.net/2006/12/12/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html/comment-page-1#comment-10282 Steve Tue, 12 Dec 2006 08:23:22 +0000 http://www.steveaddison.net/2006/12/14/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html#comment-10282 John, I think you're right. We have to keep moving forward in mission but work hard at the support systems and at helping people discern their readiness for church planting. I made it through our 'failed' church plant because I had a coach-mentor in Terry Walling who helped see how God was using the experience. Appreciate your input. John, I think you’re right. We have to keep moving forward in mission but work hard at the support systems and at helping people discern their readiness for church planting. I made it through our ‘failed’ church plant because I had a coach-mentor in Terry Walling who helped see how God was using the experience.

Appreciate your input.

]]> By: John Smulo http://www.movements.net/2006/12/12/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html/comment-page-1#comment-10281 John Smulo Tue, 12 Dec 2006 05:14:31 +0000 http://www.steveaddison.net/2006/12/14/what-about-the-church-planting-failures.html#comment-10281 Steve, Thanks for the follow up post. I believe passionately in church planting and church planters. But I also believe we need to take the failure rate--whatever it is--seriously and work hard on thinking through why planters don't always make it. As a lead pastor/church planter that was a part of a failed plant, I know from experience the huge impact this can have, not only on myself and my family, but those who were involved. I've been interested in how many church planters have experienced great difficulties in their first plant or two, and then had a lot of success after this. So maybe it's learning the hard way, maybe God preparing the person for future planting experiences, maybe, maybe? Steve,

Thanks for the follow up post. I believe passionately in church planting and church planters. But I also believe we need to take the failure rate–whatever it is–seriously and work hard on thinking through why planters don’t always make it.

As a lead pastor/church planter that was a part of a failed plant, I know from experience the huge impact this can have, not only on myself and my family, but those who were involved.

I’ve been interested in how many church planters have experienced great difficulties in their first plant or two, and then had a lot of success after this. So maybe it’s learning the hard way, maybe God preparing the person for future planting experiences, maybe, maybe?

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